Thuban 201 - Agenda Level 2

B.B.Baghor


B.B.Baghor

Posts: 223
Join date: 2014-01-31
Age: 63
Location: The Netherlands

• Post n°506

Pacal Votan - Legacy of the Galactic Maya 2.4.7

B.B.Baghor on December 10th 2014, 6:15 am



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=synWKolHNBY

Origin and Nature of GM108X - Hermetic Mind Stream 4.7.2


Uploaded April 29 2010

Cosmic History Chronicles Vol. 4, Book of the Initiation by José Argüelles and Stephanie South

(Quote) "Permit the publication of "COSMIC HISTORY CHRONICLES"

Dear.......

I am writing today confirm that we, the Foundation for the Law of Time, authorize your usage
of the Cosmic History Chronicles on YouTube.com. All we ask is that you please give proper credit
to the authors, Jose Arguelles/Valum Votan and Stephanie South/Red Queen - as well as the website
www.lawoftime.org

We thank you for sharing this most important information with the world.

Sincerely,

Jacob Wyatt
Operations Manager
---------------------

Foundation for the Law of Time
"Envisioning the Earth as a Work of Art!"
www.lawoftime.org

In lak'ech (end of quote)

More stuff to ponder and delve into, no signifance in it for me as regards to who's wrong or right,
just digesting what's in it for me. Counting time maybe done in left brain way and right brain way.
Mayan women, nurturing their babes and stirring the cooking pots, just count each day as a day.
Their men are chopping each other's heads off for want of being right or wrong in counting time.
The right time. Time as we know it, at least most of us, is an illusion of our mind telling us to believe
in and live by. So, to me, there's no point in finding out who's right or wrong. I guess I am one of
those Mayan women, feeding her baby while stirring the cooking pot, brewing a life



_________________
B.B.Baghor

 

Raven


Raven

Posts: 457
Join date: 2010-04-10
Age: 47
Location: The Emerald City

• Post n°507

Re: The 65th AHUA - 9,360,000 Kin / Days - 16 DEC 2013 at SUNSET, 17 DEC 2013 at SUNRISE - next Grand Cycle

Raven Today at 9:37 pm

What is the Thirteen Moon/Dreamspell Calendar?

December 11, 2014 | By: Calleman | 6 Comments



Many people with an interest in the Mayan calendar have at some point or another come in contact with the so-called Thirteen Moon/Dreamspell calendar, a calendar that was created in the early 1990’s by José and Lloydine Argüelles. It is common that people who have been taught this calendar at one point or another ask the question: “Why are there two different Mayan calendars?” and the purpose of this article is to provide a perspective on this, which most likely is different from what teachers of the Dreamspell will give themselves.
The proponents of Thirteen Moon/Dreamspell calendar claim that this is a female, natural and Mayan calendar and that it has such advantages that we should replace the Gregorian calendar with it. We will here examine these claims and explain how and why this calendar was created especially as related to the traditional Mayan calendar. The height of popularity of the Dreamspell calendar may now be gone. Yet, it remains important to create clarity about its origin and nature, especially if we now are to develop a calendar based on the Mayan that serves the evolution of humanity in a better way.
I will then here first briefly outline the structure of the Thirteen Moon/Dreamspell calendar: This calendar system is a combination of thirteen so-called “moon” periods of 28 days, every year taking their beginning on July 26. Thirteen moons of 28 days amounts to a total of 364 days to which one day, the “day-out-of-time” has been added on July 25. This compensates for the fact that the solar year of our planet is actually 365+ days. Combined with these thirteen moons is then the Dreamspell calendar, a so-called tzolkin count. This calendar is a modification of the traditional Mayan tzolkin count of 260 combinations of twenty day-signs (or glyphs) with thirteen numbers. Based on the Dreamspell tzolkin count, the adherents are assigned “galactic signatures” that purportedly define their identities, qualities and fates or at least aspects of those. Every four years, when there is a leap day in the Gregorian calendar on February 29, the Dreamspell count is interrupted and makes a jump in its flow as this day is given no tzolkin energy. In addition to this basic structure, the Thirteen Moon/Dreamspell calendar includes a number of cycles of lesser importance. These are however created against the background of the cycles outlined above and need not be detailed here. Here we will instead look more closely at the basic structure of this calendar and scrutinize the claims that it is: 1/ female, 2/natural and 3/ Mayan, since it is claimed that these are its strong points compared to other calendars.



Claim 1: The Thirteen Moon/Dreamspell calendar is a female calendar.

The claim that the Thirteen Moon calendar would be a female calendar is based on the fact that modern medicine often gives 28 days as a rule of thumb for the durations of the female cycles of ovulation and menstruation. It seems however that the proponents of the Thirteen Moon calendar have not really examined if this claim is true. To begin with, each woman in fertile age has an individual cycle with a duration that may vary between 22 and 31 days, which she often keeps a calendar of herself. Already for this reason it is somewhat questionable if an abstract ideal of a 28-day cycle codified in a general calendar serves a good purpose. Moreover, considering that few women would have periods starting at the same time as the thirteen moons it would seem that the number of women whose cycles actually follow this calendar would be very small, maybe less than one per cent.
More profoundly problematic is the fact that the 28-day rule of thumb of modern medicine is not the actual natural cycle of women. Studies performed in the 1950’s with hundreds of thousands of women showed that their cycles instead on average are 29.5 days long. The reason the female cycles have this duration is that they are connected to the full moon cycle of 29.52 days. To confirm these connections studies were performed in the 1960’s with Chinese women living without electrical lights that showed not only that their cycles on average are 29.5 days, but also that their excretion of hydroxymelatonin, originating from the melatonin of the light-sensitive pineal gland, occurred in response to the light of the full-moon. This connection between the female and the full moon is sometimes expressed in ancient myths, but may be too magical for modern medicine to accept and so it has created the idea of a 28-day cycle. Today many women may also in fact have shorter cycles than 29.5 days. This is because of the current prevalence of electric lights (and computers) in the night time (having the same effect as the full moon) as well as the spread of hormone disruptors (such as contraceptive pills) that have perturbed the connections of the female cycles with the full moon. Yet, these are hardly factors that can be qualified as female or natural. It can be concluded that the Thirteen Moon calendar is not a female calendar, despite the rhetoric of its adherents. If anything, this calendar tends to alienate women from their natural connection to the full moon cycle and replace it with a purely abstract mathematical cycle of 28 days. The ancient Maya did not follow a 28 day cycle, but one that alternated between 29 and 30 days to create an average of 29.5 consistent with the natural cycle of women.


Claim 2: The Thirteen Moon/Dreamspell calendar is a natural calendar.

The claim that the Thirteen Moon/Dreamspell calendar is a natural calendar is a little bit more difficult to examine since it is not really clear what would be meant by natural time. If natural time is sacred metaphysical time like the Mayan, then as we shall see under Claim 3, the Dreamspell does not reflect this. Here we will instead scrutinize the claim that the Thirteen Moon/Dreamspell calendar is a calendar that follows the seasons or astronomical cycles in a way that would make it natural. To argue that it is a natural calendar you can of course say that it has a set starting date in the solar year, July 26, based on which you can follow the passage of the seasons, but all calendars, including the Gregorian, that are based on the solar year allows for the same thing. In this regard July 26 does not seem to be preferable to or more natural than for instance January 1 or the spring equinox of March 21.
Why then has the July 26 date been chosen as a New Year’s Day for the Thirteen Moon/Dreamspell calendar? The origin of this date. It goes back to the cycle of following the solar year, the so-called Haab calendar of 365 days that was used in ancient times by the Maya. Since this cycle is shorter than the solar year of approximately 365.25 days, and the Maya did not use leap days, the beginning point of this Haab calendar would move one day in relation to the solar year every four years. Thus, prior to the arrival of the Europeans there was no set New Year’s Day for the Haab calendar.
It then so happened that as the Spanish conquered Yucatan in 1540 the beginning day of this Haab calendar had moved to the day that was July 16 in the Julian calendar (corresponding to July 26 in the Gregorian). Since from a European perspective, where the Julian leap day had been in use for a long time, a year with a moving starting point seemed irrational it seems that the decision was then made to fix this at July 26. Thus, in Relación de las cosas de Yucatán, written in 1566 by the infamous Bishop de Landa, the July 26 date is described as a New Year’s date of the Maya and also in the later Books of Chilam Balam (which José Argüelles quotes as his source). This means that ever since the conquest the starting day of the Haab no longer moved and in contrast to prior to the conquest it was frozen at July 26. De Landa, incidentally was the instigator of the burning of all Mayan books to prevent this people from continuing their traditions and not the least their calendrical culture. What then is “natural” about July 26 as a starting point for the Thirteen Moon year? What its adherents are really doing is celebrating the date when after the conquest, the Mayan Haab calendar came to an end. How can a calendar celebrating such an event be called Mayan?
There is nothing astronomically natural with the 28-day “moon” either. The 28-day period is different both from the full moon cycle of 29.5 days and from the orbital period of the Earth’s moon of 27.3 days. The 28-day cycle thus has no biological or astronomical meaning and is merely an artificial mathematical number without any relationship to the cycles of nature. Moreover, the New Year’s Day of the Thirteen Moon calendar was set as the date when the Mayan Haab calendar was frozen and adapted to the European calendars. In conclusion, there is nothing natural about the Thirteen Moon calendar except for in the rhetoric of its followers.



Claim 3: The Thirteen Moon/Dreamspell calendar is the Mayan Calendar.

Initially, in the early 1990’s, the Dreamspell calendar was often presented as if it were the Mayan calendar, but as it later became more widely known that the living Maya were following a sacred calendar tradition that went back thousands of years and was different from that of the Dreamspell, this statement was sometimes corrected. Yet, since the latter still had a pretense of being a Mayan calendar it came mostly to go by the name of the Mayan Dreamspell calendar. Presumably this was because it uses the day signs and numbers of the true Mayan calendar although it assigns those to different dates. The tzolkin count used by the Quiche-Maya and most Mayan peoples today is however the only one that goes back to ancient times and can be called the true count. Only the ancients were in a full resonance with the shifts points of creation that the tzolkin is a reflection of. Purportedly, the new tzolkin count that it presented came out of a “New dispensation” of divine knowledge. Yet, it has never been explained by its creators what advantage the Dreamspell calendar would have compared to the true Mayan, or why this old tradition was simply ignored. Clearly, the Dreamspell count has never been followed by any traditional group of Maya, either ancient or present, and we shall now see why.
The most important difference between the sacred 260-day calendar of the Maya and the corresponding Dreamspell count is that the latter makes a jump every four years at the leap day of the Gregorian calendar. Hence, in the Dreamspell count the day of February 29 is given no energy, as if it was not part of the divine flow of time. This disruption is a very significant difference especially if the tzolkin is looked upon as a matrix of spiritual, metaphysical energies describing the unbroken underpinnings of this creation.
What ignoring the leap day means for the Dreamspell calendar is that all of its “galactic signatures” are subordinated to and determined by the Gregorian calendar. I will give a simple example to illustrate this fundamental fact: In the true uninterrupted Mayan tzolkin calendar someone who is born on March 1, 2012 (which is a Gregorian leap year) will have the tzolkin energy of 8 Chicchan (serpent). If on the other hand the preceding leap day of February 29 would have been ignored and jumped over in the tzolkin flow (which is what the Dreamspell does) that energy would instead have been 7 Kan (lizard). The consequences of ignoring the energy of the leap day then extend to all of the “galactic signatures” calculated according to the Dreamspell count so that they are all determined by the date that in the Gregorian calendar is the leap day. The Gregorian leap day is just a convention and could just as well have been September 31, 2013, in which case all the “galactic signatures” would have been different. Since the Gregorian leap day is a randomly chosen date, the Dreamspell dates are not more sacred than if they had been determined by a random number generator. In contrast to the true tzolkin they have no connection to the uninterrupted flow of creation energies going back to ancient times. Paradoxically then, despite the extensive rhetoric of the Dreamspell against the Gregorian calendar, this calendar has in fact replaced the sacred energies of the Mayan tzolkin with energies that are defined by the Gregorian calendar.
For this reason, it is simply absurd to talk about the Dreamspell “galactic signature” as Mayan or “another Mayan calendar”. To explain the falseness of the Dreamspell claim to be a Mayan calendar in fact means helping to preserve the true Mayan tzolkin to future generations. This point is even more important as in several countries the Dreamspell calendar has so totally come to overshadow the true tzolkin that people there do not even know that a true Mayan calendar exists.
None of the claims of the Thirteen Moon/Dreamspell calendar thus hold up against scrutiny. Underneath all of its anti-Gregorian rhetoric it is not what it portends to be. Its 28-day cycle is purely a mathematical abstraction, which denies the female connection to the full moon cycle. Its beginning date of July 26 reflects the suppression of the Mayan Haab and lacks a natural basis as does its 28-day cycle. Most importantly, its galactic signatures are determined by the Gregorian calendar and deny people their connection to the ancient flow of time of the Mayan tzolkin.


The Passing of the Creators of the Thirteen Moon/Dreamspell Calendar and Possible Future Directions

The most controversial of the claims of the Thirteen Moon/Dreamspell calendar has always been that it is a Mayan calendar or even the Mayan calendar of our time. This is adamantly denied by Mayan elders and tradition keepers such as Don Alejandro Oxlaj (see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b1n_lpehsW4). The question must then be raised why the traditional Mayan tzolkin count was not used as the Dreamspell calendar was designed? Why was it altered in such a way that its day-signs and numbers as we now have seen became defined by the Gregorian calendar? Why was it deemed better to subordinate the Dreamspell tzolkin to the Gregorian calendar than to follow the true Mayan tzolkin? There seems to be a lead to answer this in the fact that the two creators in the system they developed had been given the energies 11 Chuen and 9 Ik, which correspond to the master numbers 11 and 22, totaling 33. It is known that José Argüelles regarded the number 33 as the key number of spiritual initiation and the two would sometimes sign their articles by “kin 11 and kin 22” to highlight this. This explanation to the Dreamspell count as being based on the birthdays of its creators exactly so as to give them the kin numbers 11 and 22 would explain why this count would not give an energy to the Gregorian leap day. Without making a jump at the leap day the two co-creators would not have been given these master numbers based on their birthdays.
Through my contacts with Lloydine Argüelles several years ago she made it clear that despite the fact that she was called a co-creator of this calendar, she did not actually know why the Mayan tzolkin was not followed in the Dreamspell. This means that José Argüelles was the only person who knew why the ancient Mayan tzolkin had been rejected and since he has passed away we will never know his motives for this with certainty. When he was confronted on the http://sacredroad.org/ web site with my suggestion that this happened in order to give its creators the master numbers 11 and 22, he neither denied it nor admitted it. He merely stated his view that there was no conflict between the two tzolkin counts.
If the above explanation to why the Dreamspell is different from the true Mayan calendar is the right one – and no other explanation has ever been given for this – we should not be surprised that outsiders may perceive this calendar as very ego-based. Hence, the “galactic signatures” serve as identities for its followers and also provide a sort of daily mantras like: “I empower in order to catalyze. Commanding energy, I seal the matrix of self-generation, With the overtone tone of radiance, I am guided by the power of accomplishment, I am a galactic activation portal enter me” This definition of tzolkin energies in terms of “I’s” is very different from how they are looked upon by the Maya as sacred energies of the divine. Given that the Ninth wave activated in 2011 is the one whose purpose it is to generate unity with the divine (which really is a pre-requisite for humans to generate unity with one another and nature), it may be expected that as this wave progresses, and to the extent people are able to connect with it, it will be increasingly difficult to uphold the Dreamspell calendar.

Before continuing we however need to look at the suggestion made by Josë Argüelles that there is no conflict between the two tzolkin counts. In my own view it is in practice impossible to follow two different tzolkin counts at the same time. To say for instance that a certain day is both Manik and Ix is like saying that a day in the common week is both Tuesday and Thursday. For someone who wants to keep his or her sanity such a statement is clearly not recommendable and in addition there is the ethical question of changing a several thousand years old Mayan tradition. It is better to be honest and recognize that there indeed is a conflict between the sacred Mayan tzolkin and the Dreamspell tzolkin whose energies are based on the Gregorian calendar. Given that the Dreamspell is based on the usurpation of the Mayan tzolkin by the Gregorian calendar, and honors the day that the Mayan Haab came to an end in 1540, the Dreamspell will in fact always be in conflict with the Mayan calendar, and is by its very nature divisive. It is entirely possible that the Dreamspell started out innocently as a game, but then its promoters should say so and not something else. What is dishonest, divisive and damaging to the spiritual heritage of our planet is when these teachers claim that the Dreamspell is a legitimate Mayan calendar. It is not. It also seems obvious that a calendar that is not fully transparent and explains how and why it was designed can never truly serve as a calendar of peace.
It then now seems natural to ask how the genius, who wrote The Mayan Factor and promoted the Harmonic Convergence came to develop such a calendar. One lead is something Argüelles himself shared about, namely the tragedy of the loss of his son Josh on October 28, 1987 was to him. People can lose their balance because of much smaller things and I want to speculate that he then lost faith in the divine and replaced this with a belief in himself as a prophet. Regardless of whether this explanation is true or not, it is just a fact that his work markedly changed direction at the time of the death of his son. Thus, while the Harmonic Convergence of August 16-17, 1987 was based on the true tzolkin (1 Imix and 2 Ik, the first two days in this count, respectively) the Dreamspell he developed later broke with this traditional calendar. Likewise, while The Mayan Factor emphasized the non-astronomical, metaphysical nature of the Mayan Calendar, the Thirteen Moon calendar instead had a physical basis. I was myself a great admirer of Argüelles work prior to 1988 and I think that he made an enormous contribution to the world by letting people know that the Mayan calendar existed. Yet, this does not justify that he presented a tzolkin he had invented himself as the Mayan calendar. Nor does it justify that he kept the origin of the tzolkin he had invented secret to everyone – including to his wife Lloydine, which does indicate that he did not want others to know of its origin.
The world need more and not less transparency and in the current situation I feel the best way of acknowledging his early contribution is to recognize that his later work with the Dreamspell is not consistent with his early work and certainly not with the only true Mayan tzolkin that has been used for 2500 years. Unfortunately, there were not many people who until the early nineties would be capable of seeing the discrepancy and support him in seeing this himself. Many people wanted a prophet to believe in rather than the true calendar itself.
Since we have seen that the Thirteen Moon/Dreamspell calendar is not female, natural or Mayan, and in many cases directly suppresses those very things, it may now instead be in its place to discuss what alternative there is to it in the future. This is all the more relevant, since after the activation of the Ninth Wave on March 9, 2011, a society that is more female, natural and Mayan and less leader-led will ultimately be generated. José Argüelles did admit towards the end of his life that there was a value in the Mayan calendar system of nine waves. Yet, he passed away in the very 1^st day of the Ninth Wave on March 23, 2011 (1 Ahau in the true calendar, since it was morning in Australia). Also Lloydine Burris has now passed away (on May 16, 2014), on the 33^rd day of the Ninth Wave. Possibly then there is a connection of these times of passing to the development of the Ninth Wave. Lloydine notably passed away on the day 8 Batz in the latter calendar. This is the day when the Mayan tzolkin calendar is celebrated by the Maya themselves in Guatemala and when the training of new day-keepers begins in a tradition that goes back thousands of years. It is open to interpretation, but maybe there is a message also in the energy of the day a person passes away and that she wanted to acknowledge the celebration of the true Mayan tzolkin on this very day.
Regardless, as the Ninth Wave has now been active since March 9, 2011 and we have gone through the very significant shift in the Mayan calendar on October 28, 2011 it seems that a calendar that reflects our inner shifts and helps us identify when we are experiencing unity consciousness would be of great value. For the reasons given above the Dreamspell calendar is not able to respond to what is needed from such a calendar today. The calendar of the future I believe instead must be based on the true Mayan calendar following the continuous stream of time energies emanating from the Source of creation, the divine. And yet, since we are now at a fundamentally new point in time, this ancient calendar system will have to be used in a new way, without falling back on the authorities of the past. It has to be used in such a way that it serves the spiritual transformation of each one of us into unity consciousness. To do so will however require that we have gained clarity and fully understand the meaning of the Mayan calendar. Part of this clarity, especially for coming generations, will have to come from understanding the kind of alternative calendars that were created before the shift. If this has been attained this article has served its purpose.
Santa Fe, NM, December 11, 2014 (9 Ahau)



http://calleman.com/2014/12/11/thirteen-moondreamspell-calendar/?utm_source=Copy+of+Copy+of+Copy+of+Copy+of+october+13%2C+2014&utm_campaign=October+13%2C+2014&utm_medium=email

Comments


[*] Cynthia Rose December 11, 2014 at 5:51 pm
Thank you for explaining this so clearly and patiently. I eagerly await our new calendar that is actually the old one!


[*] louis kuipers December 11, 2014 at 9:10 pm
Dear Mr. Calleman,
You know that the Dreamspell Calendar is a terrible mistake and it is our duty to explain this to the world!
Let us have a meeting about this item . The dreamspellcalendar is defenitly wrong and we can prove that! I am sure!
I cannot waite.
Best Greetings,
Louis


[*] Calleman December 12, 2014 at 3:44 pm
Yes, Argüelles made a terrible mistake and in a sense it may be so big that many have a hard time believing that he actually committed it. But maybe Dreamspell started out innocently, simply as a game, and then became a dogma and presented by its teachers and followers as a legitimate Mayan calendar. People yearning for a connection to the Mayan calendar would take Argüelles calendar seriously at a time when he commanded a lot of prestige and the real alternative was unknown. Then, he found himself captive of the false calendar he had created and there was no way he could retract. We will never know.
Today, Dreamspell leaders and their followers all over the world should however take responsibility themselves regardless of what the motives and intentions of its creators were. This means facing the truth squarely rather than just continuing the old personality cult, which truly belong to the old paradigm. We are living in a time when many are beginning to see the hidden agendas of society at large, but ironically when such things appear within alternative communities such as the Dreamspell many turn a blind eye and do not face it. It is however important to let newcomers know about the origin and nature of this calendar, so that they can make an informed choice about what they are getting in to.
To have a meeting to discuss the creation of a calendar of the future based on the true Mayan calendar sounds like a good idea. I think the time may also have come to start discussing a new world calendar without a hidden agenda. Let me know what you suggest.


[*]Eson December 12, 2014 at 6:32 pm
Very interesting indeed, even if I have never been interested in the “caledar” called Dreamspell. If it is not a Mayan Caledar it shouldn’t be called as such.
But as we all live in a world of illusion, does it really matter what illusion we follow?


[*]Calleman December 12, 2014 at 8:20 pm
Well, that is a deep philosophical question, but don’t you agree that you should
have correct information?


[*]andrew December 12, 2014 at 8:39 pm
I approve.

 

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Jorgelito - Posted Oct 15th 2012

Thank you for speaking on Thuban -- what it is, it's origins. Thuban has an energy like the Wind that takes me where I want to go. It's not the words people speak so much -- it's a loving energy inherent in Thuban that permits me to be free, This energy percolates through the entire site. I am gratefull.

Post last edited Oct 15th 2012

 

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Shiloh Za-Rah - Posted Oct 15th 2012

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Jorgelito - Posted 7 Hours Ago


Thank you for speaking on Thuban -- what it is, it's origins. Thuban has an energy like the Wind that takes me where I want to go. It's not the words people speak so much -- it's a loving energy inherent in Thuban that permits me to be free, This energy percolates through the entire site. I am gratefull.
​

---

You are always welcome, as are all readers on this website Jorgelito.
These two 'oldies' describe the wisdom of your soul, which you continue to share on Thuban.
​

​

And these two!

Thanking You, for your presence here!
Thubanis​

Post last edited Oct 18th 2012

 

ISAAC NEWTON'S ALCHEMY AND EZEKIEL'S TIMELINE TO 2013 = http://www.birthofgaia.com/t153p15-the-new-world-according-to-the-book-of-life-of-the-world-logos#2417
The Mirrors of Gaia Serpentina = http://www.birthofgaia.com/t153p45-the-new-world-according-to-the-book-of-life-of-the-world-logos#2984



Tzol'kin = http://www.birthofgaia.com/t153p45-the-new-world-according-to-the-book-of-life-of-the-world-logos#2984




HERE = The Decoding of the Mayan Calendar as a Holofractal​

Hunab Ku = http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hunab_Ku
interdimensional = http://www.birthofgaia.com/t103p60-the-archetyped-cosmogenesis-of-the-human-metamorphosis#1525



New Jerusalem = http://www.birthofgaia.com/t153-the-new-world-according-to-the-book-of-life-of-the-world-logos#2297
Merkabah = http://www.birthofgaia.com/t153p30-the-new-world-according-to-the-book-of-life-of-the-world-logos#2850​

Post last edited Oct 19th 2012

 

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Jorgelito - Posted Oct 15th 2012


Permission Granted


After thinking about what you say, I give firm, absolute & complete permission for The One to come into me. We both want this.

• I'm in tears of happiness. Soul says he likes Louis Armstrong very much!

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SUSANakaTHE13THBRIDGE - Posted Oct 16th 2012



good stuff

 

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Shiloh Za-Rah - Posted Oct 16th 2012

Jorgelito - Posted 4 Hours Ago


I'm in tears of happiness. Soul says he likes Louis Armstrong very much!


The Cosmic Powers rejoice over your 'Surrender to the Superverse' here, Jorgelito. Not many will be able to 'enter' the 'Real New World' in the 'cosmic offering of the old self' to receive a new starhuman selfhood and as the inheritance of all the incarnates from yesterday, today and tomorrow.
There is a most devious 'alternative' 'New World Order' at hand and this is not the NWO of the 'New Agers', so you might beware of the 'reading between the lines'.
I have found a less than an hour video, which describes this 'antistate' very well and have added this to the homepage, due to its pertinence in this timeline towards the cosmic rebirth.
Yes, it seems like a 'debunking' of this same rebirth and only the 'clever at mind' and 'innocent at heart' simultaneously, will be able to differentiate between the 'New World' and its 'Fake Image'. To separate the 'wheat from the chaff' demands a 'Thinking Heart' in complimentary balances with a 'Feeling Mind' and not many of the old human inheritors find themselves in environs of the necessary solitude and encumbrances to nourish, evolve and cherish such a Logos necessitated harmony.

Chris White a real PTB exposer; honest as the day is long and able to discern the 'robotic trainees' of the 'Echeloners'!​

This Family of the Elders of Thuban is a testimony of remembrance of the purpose and reason for the human genome to exist as a race of cocreators within a greater order of the Cosmos, often termed the World Logos in the Source-Energy of ABBA as the Love of the Words of Creation.

The video above exposes the 'antithesis' of a so called 'New World New Order', which has hijacked and misappropriated this 'Thuban Agenda for the World Logos' in a most deceptive and 'brainwashing' manner, albeit 'prophecied' to become happenstance.
I ask all prospective readers, potential participators and vistors to allow for some time to watch this 'debunking of the NABS' video. It will then be much easier, to understand and appreciate the 'Thuban Way of Cosmic Life' and the many compositions and descriptions, which can be found and accessed on this website.
Tonyblue with Olivia​

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Post last edited Oct 16th 2012

 

Shiloh Za-Rah - Posted Oct 17th 2012

[2:40:04 AM - Wednesday, October 17th, 2012 -(+11UCT)]
THE13THBRIDGE


Posted Oct 16th 2012

what do you think of this ?

View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JFI6m6Icav4&feature=related

[Zeitgeist REFUTED & DEBUNKED! (Religious)​

Zeitgeist REFUTED & DEBUNKED! (Religious Portion)
{and the 'astro-archaeo-theological' implications as mis(ab)used by 'bible skeptics' and Cosmic Logos deniers}

​

Elliott Nesch has taken the time to go through the claims of the Zeitgeist movie and reveal their lies, in the religious portion, one by one. Do you really believe that the Jesus of the Bible has His roots in mythology? Then you are sorely mistaken. If you are open to the TRUTH, then watch this whole video. Elliot's youtube channel is: http://www.youtube.com/ElliottNesch​

Thank You Susan, for this additional expose' of the 'real disinformation peddlers' hiding behind the 'alternative data' labels.
As you should know, Thuban supports the 'non-religious' part of Zeitgeist, but dismisses its 'misreading' of the Logos related subject matter.
The overall NWO agenda to hijack the 'New Agers' is however made clear and focuses on the discreditation of a real physical incarnation (and transcension of this same physicality) of the World Logos aka 'Jesus the Christ aka Yeshuah Ben Joseph Bar Thomas Didymos' as the theosophical and astrotheological 'office of the so called Word of God' aka the Cosmogenesis of all Existence across all worlds and dimensions.
However from October 17th, 2012 the 'agency of the antiLogos' stands exposed as testimony facing the ignorance and the deception of the general populace.

​

​

Thubanis

Raven

Post last edited Oct 19th 2012​

 

Shiloh Za-Rah - Posted Oct 17th 2012

Floyd


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• Post n°17

Re: Conversations regarding the Cosmic Changes in Archetypes and Symbols

Floyd Yesterday at 4:30 am

Hola Raven

Raven wrote:




Caveat: Thubanis does not agree with the skeptical astrophysicist, who posted this video, related to {http://yowcrooks.wordpress.com/tag/brian-cox/} in general, but fully supports the application of 'scientific reason' by him and the skeptics community.


I would say he was just an astrophysicist without the need for the skeptical prefix. His views surrounding doomsday predictions and pseudo science are spot on.

He was actually a musician too in the British Band Blur before he went on to become a professor of physics and astronomy.
http://www.blur.co.uk/


The yowcrooks site you mention has some excellent material based around the fear profiteer, misinformer and joker Marshall Masters



Raven wrote:



It also seems to be the case that the disinformation campaign has permeated current-day spiritual movements as well.



Yes


Raven wrote:


There are indeed challenges to collective and individual physical, mental and spiritual stability now and to come, to be sure. But the world will not end on December the 21, 2012 despite deliberate and derogatory generalizations characterizing non-mainstream spiritualists by mainstream paradigmatic hitmen.



Yes.

Raven wrote:


The Tsarion NABS is in contraindication with the Brian Cox presentation, but is fully exposed as ptb disinformation for the eyes to see and the ears to hear via the 'NWO telepromtings', evident in Tsarion's 'not so hearty presentation style'. But as said, for the not so 'brainwashed and hijacked' auditory and optical natural equipment.


Yes. Oh yes

So in a nutshell. Yes lol.


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• Post n°18

Re: Conversations regarding the Cosmic Changes in Archetypes and Symbols

mudra Yesterday at 5:33 am


Regarding our solar system's circular journey through our galaxy and hence the cycles of changes experienced on Earth through time
this is an interesting video Raven

Svensmark: The Cloud Mystery



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ANMTPF1blpQ&noredirect=1




Love from me
mudra



_________________
Beyond all this mind-made fragmentation and separation, who are you?
The answer will not come in words…

Jeff Foster


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• Post n°25

Re: Conversations regarding the Cosmic Changes in Archetypes and Symbols

Raven Today at 3:08 am
mudra wrote:


Regarding our solar system's circular journey through our galaxy and hence the cycles of changes experienced on Earth through time
this is an interesting video Raven

Svensmark: The Cloud Mystery

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ANMTPF1blpQ&noredirect=1


Love from me
mudra


Thank You Mudra!

Yes, a nice rational dispensation and this relates to CLOUDS as a interdimensional phase 'dimension' between the solid-liquid-gaseous energy states in 4D spacetime to a 'new reconfigured' 'plasmic' 5D timespace to be born in the near future. The 'vessels of deliverances' are indeed 'hidden in the clouds of the fowls of heaven'.

Isaiah 60:8 (KJV)
Who are these that fly as a cloud, and as the doves to their windows?

Revelation 19:17-21
¹⁷And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;
^18]That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.
¹⁹And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.
²⁰And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
²¹ And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.

​

We have added your contribution on our forums.

Mudra's Cloudy 'Doves of Peace'

Starry Love from the Thubans to you!



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• Post n°20

Re: Conversations regarding the Cosmic Changes in Archetypes and Symbols

Floyd Today at 1:43 am

When something like zeitgeist comes along people often get swept along with it without really looking into things and criticising or scrutinising them enough.

The same can be said of modern understanding of the New Age Movement in the conspiratorial world of youtube and forums.

In reality there is no such thing as a New Age Religion nor even a movement. When I was writing my dissertation on the History of the so called New Age Movement for college many moons ago, I was forced to use books, journals and articles (shock horror)!!. Yes actual books written by real historians biographers and academics lol. There was no such thing as youtube back then and the internet was a babe that only the colleges had access to on a large scale. It was very slow.

Propaganda, is so easily transmitted to the conspiratorial hordes of various persuasion thanks to badly made, poorly researched youtube videos that everyone takes for granted because they are too lazy or weak minded to do the research themselves.

Is there a new age religion? No there isnt. Why is that? What has been labelled New Age is rather like Hinduism. There is actually no such thing nor religion as Hinduism. It is a western collective term for religious and philosophical systems that conflict and diverge greatly ranging from atheistic systems such as the Samkyha school to devotional systems such as bhakti yoga.

Similarly, the new age movement is an umbrella term for a huge amount of disparate and conflicting spiritual and philosophical systems ranging from UFO cults to sufi mysticism, to movements based on Indian and Tibetan philosophy. It also includes esoteric Christian groups, Occult societies and self empowerment/improvement groups. There is however no single thread that unites them and in fact, there is probably more that makes the alleged 'movement' disjointed than enjoins them into one single identifiable body. Many of the leading figures in schools and groups identified with this movement have spent most of the time bickering and arguing rather than uniting. In other words, there is no New Age Movement. No New Age Religion.

Some of the bodies associated with the New Age Movement have in fact became propaganda targets of Judaism and Christianity linking them with outrageous plots to take over the world. One of the main targets of this propaganda was the Theosophical Society because of Madame's stinging critiques of the religion of Jehovah and of organised Christianity. Additionaly, they disproved of her society's activities in reconverting locals back to their indigenous religious systems in Ceylon (Sri Lanka) and setting up Buddhist schools, much to the ire of the imperialist Christian missionaries. Add to that the Societies influence on assisting hone rule and independence for India which provoked the imperialist occupiers even further. That movement had its own problems sure but it is not the devil it has been made out to be.
Additionally when one thinks about the crimes done in the name of the various Christian churches over the centuries one shudders.
Wiccan, pagan and nature religions have been attacked regularly by propaganda.

The more you look into the history and background of movements such as this one you will realise that picture painted by propaganda videos is far from the truth. Like in the Zeitgeist movie you were talking about. Youtube videos are an incredibly poor source of information and not to be trusted. Pick up a good book by someone who knows what they are talking about instead.


NABS, (New Age Bull XXXX) as you refer to it Raven. If there is no new age religion per se, can there be NABS. Of course there can but its best to analyse it specifically with the individuals or groups promoting it as there is no collective school of thought, no single new age religion. For instance, IMO ascension is NABS but not all movements associated with ascensionism agree with each other and some dont believe in it at all. So it is better to look in detail as to the people who are promoting it and selling it. We find that religion is based on messages sent by aliens and ascended masters being chanelled or being contacted. This information is often repackaged with pseudo science than marketed as spirituality, often for hefty profits by unscrupulous individuals. The older schools however, distance themselves from modern representatives of 2012 and ascension.

The aliens and their contacts of the various UFO religions (that range from Adamski. Pelley to Meier and King are all arguing with each other). Much of what these people are writing about is extremely unpleasant distasteful, and lacks spirituality. NABS. Of a particular American modern archetypal kind.

Many groups associated with new age movement do not recognize aliens but are still erroneously lumped together with the others. The occult schools of both the left hand path and right hand path are poles apart and often have different agendas, some aligning themselves with Christ and others not. They have been bickering for over a hundred years and in no way represent a unified front or united school of thought.

There are other smaller organisations that many will not have heard of like Emin, SUBUD or the Circle of Inner Truth that may have an element of NABS but they two groups are really poles apart philosophically.

One thing all these groups (as well as the major religions) have in common, is that generally speaking, their way is the truth. They alone have the keys to the mysteries of life the universe and everything. Anyone claiming this of course is being ridiculous. There are many roads up the mountain. Clearly some will lead you round the base of the mountain or even underground it.

Having said all of that are there elements of these schools of thought that are positive and welcome. Sure there are. There are elements of many religions that are profound. The problem arises is when people think ones system is superior to the systems of others which develops an egoic distraction in the psyche of the individual. 'My dads got a better car than your dad' etc.

There is plenty of NABS especially in the modern age where it has become heavily monetised and even part of psyops and political and religious propaganda to a certain extent.

In the final analysis, the so called new age movement is to wide, disparate and philosophically differing to criticize as a whole. Its an interesting subject however. Another thing I would say about the alleged new age movement is this. The groups that are lumped together in it are relatively insignificant compared to the major religions. They are in no way as dangerous as the conspiratorial youtube videos make out. While there may be much to criticise about them it is the major religions that pose a real threat. specifically the monotheistic triad of Judaism, Christianity and Islam. This aligned with the politics and philosophy of greed.

A new age would be welcome though wouldnt it. There is so much wrong with this planet. Its just how we get there. One doesn't necessarily need a religion or be part of a mystery school to get there.

Happy Day



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• Post n°21

Re: Conversations regarding the Cosmic Changes in Archetypes and Symbols

Raven Today at 2:25 am

Indeed Floyd!

I agree with you and what we term NABS is in no way meant to belittle or derogarotize the 'Dreaming of many peoples (and all living creatures)' of and about a 'New World' to occupy and live in.

We agree with most of your words, except your 'overgeneralisation' of Christianity. We also 'like' Theosophism and Steiner's Anthrophosophy say in the mode of Albert Schweitzer and do not consider it 'Luciferic' in the 'New Age' meaning of the words.

But our 'insider knowledge' refers to precisely the 'misappropriation' and the deviousness of the 'groups and associations' and 'movements' you refer to.
These are the real charlatans and 'snake oil' salesmen in this NABS agenda and they more often than not include well meaning (at the start) propagators like say David Wilcock and Alex Collier and perhaps even Kerry Cassidy.
As soon as such 'adherents' receive publicity though, they often fall into a 'human vanity and selfimportance trap' and the consequences are what the majority of the 'New World dreamers' cannot differentiate as a 'true researched and analysed information base' from the 'human fantasy of make beliefs' or similar descriptions.

Shiloh has written a detailed debunking of one of your 'pet disclaimers' in the Talmud of Jmmanuel and the Billy Meier fraud and you can look at this here: Debunking the Talmud of Jmmanuel

But this one-off post on MOA by us relates to a much more devious campaign by the true 'ptb', shiloh calls 'Echeloners of the NWO', because this rather small group of 'informed aristocrats and little to doers, but to solve the mysteries sequestered from the public' has indeed found the 'secrets of the perennial philosophy' say as described in older or 'more primitive' semantics by the Theosophists and 'channelers' like Jane Roberts (Seth) and Carla Rueckert (Ra). Most channelers today are mere fading shadows of the 'mediums' from those of the 20th century and this is related to a necessary bifurcation or split between factions, you might describe as 'believers versus skeptics'.

Now, because this 'echeloner family' knows of the 'Logos codes', it has for over 6 decades now systematically and thoroughly used this 'believer versus skeptic' modus operandi to polarise the global populus.
Our posting here on MOA now addresses this 'stand-off' in a rather intricate manner to expose just this agenda.
The 'echeloners' so ECHO a Cosmic Truth in a kind of 'inverted fashion' and this 'inversion' MUST seek to denounce, belittle and attempt to render irrelevant (say as a human mind invention or manipulation), a non-inverted or 'straight' truth of the World Logos.
This description is encapsulated in an encoded 'crowned' 'manual or handbook'; which is a little book the 'echeloners' also use as their 'guide', but a little book, which is basically unknown and misunderstood by the populus globally and at large.
This little book then promises certain things to the echeloners and it is this promise, which is behind the NWO in whatever form.

But the 'Celestial Wedding' between the Logos and the AntiLogos has indeed arrived and the manifesto of this, as a basically metaphysical occurrence, does indeed allow the 'little gods' as cocreators to help and begin to 'enter a New World'. But we shall leave it at that for now.

​

This is because the time has come for this, and a perhaps rather unpalatable truth for many, to be known.
For who will be able to admit to themselves, that they have been deceived and brainwashed by their 'trusted sources' and the many data pretenders, you so eloquently point to in the you tube videos and the prevalence of divers websites.
Even if few will have the eyes to see or the ears to hear; the 'Truth' is NOT selfrelative and open to New Age timelines as self-proclaimed little gods or creators who can create their own rules as to how the physical and the metaphysical universe works and functions.

The Thuban Family from the Stars




Last edited by Raven on October 17th 2012, 2:43 am; edited 2 times in total

Floyd


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• Post n°22

Re: Conversations regarding the Cosmic Changes in Archetypes and Symbols






Floyd Today at 2:35 am

Raven wrote: Indeed Floyd!

Shiloh has written a detailed debunking of one of your 'pet disclaimers' in the Talmud of Jmmanuel and the Billy Meier fraud and you can look at this here:



Hey Raven do you have the link for this please. I would be interested in reading this.

This is one good review of what is essentially a hoax that contains some pretty horrific content.

http://www.robertmprice.mindvendor.com/reviews/meier_jmmanuel.htm


Those selling such material must be pretty disturbed.

Cheers

F

Stick around.


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• Post n°23

Re: Conversations regarding the Cosmic Changes in Archetypes and Symbols

Raven Today at 2:45 am
Floyd wrote:
Raven wrote: Indeed Floyd!

Shiloh has written a detailed debunking of one of your 'pet disclaimers' in the Talmud of Jmmanuel and the Billy Meier fraud and you can look at this here:



Hey Raven do you have the link for this please. I would be interested in reading this.

This is one good review of what is essentially a hoax that contains some pretty horrific content.

http://www.robertmprice.mindvendor.com/reviews/meier_jmmanuel.htm


Those selling such material must be pretty disturbed.

Cheers

F

Stick around.


I apologize Floyd, yes I was looking for the link, which I have now included in the above post.
Lol, yes shiloh quotes Robert Price too. You need to scroll down the page a bit.

Debunking the Talmud of Jmmanuel


Raven


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• Post n°24

Re: Conversations regarding the Cosmic Changes in Archetypes and Symbols

Floyd Today at 2:47 am


Nice one. Ta.

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• Post n°27

Re: Conversations regarding the Cosmic Changes in Archetypes and Symbols

Raven Today at 3:32 am
Floyd wrote: Thanks Raven.

Going back to Shiloh's post on The Talmud of Jmannuel hoax that you have provided, he had this to say

" The short clips and this quote here, which should show the 'rather human agenda driven and political nature' of this material in a self-evidence for anyone reading this:"

This is essentially true, not only of Billy Meir's hoax and the other Talmud promoter George Green but also the pioneers of other 'alien backed racial purist groups that are simply a front for racial elitism and far right politics. This is exemplified in the works of the first fascist alienist William Dudley Pelley and his prodigy George Hunt Williamson who both 'invented' religions to back up their political views but provided a mythical UFO/alien romance to draw in members of the public. SoulCraft was Pelley's 'invention'

The Urantia movement in particular is an excellent example of using a series of allegedly supernatural MSS to prop up a philosophy of racial purity, eugenics, moral rectitude and sterilisation, that were in step with the rightist Utopian American ideals of the time.

So basically, what Shiloh is saying about the Talmud is correct but it also applies to others of the genre as described in this post and thread.

They are essentially distractions for politically motivated and Arisophical ideas.

Cheers

F


Yes Floyd!

And just like the 'TOJ' could be said to be like a 'pet annoyance' to you, so is the 'Urantia Book Nonsense' to shiloh. He told me, that he 'fought many metaphysical battles' with the 'Urantia followers', before he became web savvy on his forums.
Who requires the 'JW or SDA or Mormon' bashers, if there are much more devious and 'eloquently obscuring' disinformation peddlers like the Urantians, the Avalonians and Cameloteers and the Anna Hayes and Cassiopeia 'channels' with their many derivatives and associatees.

Raven


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• Post n°28

Re: Conversations regarding the Cosmic Changes in Archetypes and Symbols

Ashera - October 17th, 2012

​

​

Post last edited Oct 17th 2012

 

Posted Oct 17th 2012

sexual = http://www.birthofgaia.com/t192-natural-bisexuality-in-starhumans#2790
Higgs Field = http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Higgs_mechanism
Higgs Boson de Thuban Draconis
​